Android Phone

iPad

iPhone

Android Tablet

Windows

Australian Dollar

Bitgesell

Euro

Saudi Riyal

US Dollar

Betsoft

Rival Gaming

Curacao

21Grand Casino

Amex

Giropay

Ideal

Master Card

Neteller

Paysafecard

Postepay

Skrill

Sofort

Usemybank

VISA

Chat

Email

Phone

Hi katja76 – thanks for getting in contact.

Having reviewed the 21 Grand terms, I can see nothing that specifically defines that using a Martingale betting progression is prohibited and without specific definition the player cannot be expected to know what a “system play” is.

I’ll contact 21 Grand and see what I can find out.

ThePOGG

Hi katja76,

Apologies for the delays.

Due to some serious server issues we lost your complaint and I've been out of action for the last couple of weeks. As such I've had to repost your complaint - I'll email your new password to you shortly.

To update this issue, I'm due to speak with someone in the 21 Grand management team in the next few days.

I would like to emphasize at this point that the delays with this conversation have been entirely on my part and this would have been taken care of last week if I hadn't had urgent issues that had to be dealt with.

ThePOGG

Hi ThePOGG,

How are things going :)
If you need anything from me (to resend you mails, info etc....) please let me know. OK?

Thank you,
Katja

Hi katja76,

I've spoken to 21 Grand casino management today and I'm sorry to say that the result is not what I'd hoped for.

While 21 Grand have agreed to return your deposits and were very complimentary about your comportment and personality, they are refusing to pay the win as they feel that you've broken a clearly stipulated term by using the Martingale progression.

21 Grand have agreed to clarify the specific term - 6.3 - to ensure that the term 'system' is is altered to allow players to know exactly what types of behaviour is prohibited.

While I would positively comment on 21 Grand's management being as accommodating as they were about this discussion - their Casino Manager put aside nearly an hour today for this discussion - and I do feel that their willingness to listen and engage in improving their terms is highly encouraging, there is simply no way I can agree with this decision.

While there is some ambiguity about the Martingale progression being classed as a "system" - there is little doubt that it is one of best known betting systems - there is greater ambiguity in my mind as to what "system play" means. Simply put, flat betting could be considered a system. Increasing your bet every time a even number comes out could be considered a system. In fact literally any form of play could be considered a system.

Further to this, given 21 Grand's acceptance that the rule would benefit from clarification, I can't see any reasonable justification for asserting that the rule was clear enough to justify seizure of funds.

So while I would agree that it's not entirely unreasonable for the casino to suggest that the Martingale progression should be considered system play and I am pleased with 21 Grand's willingness to engage with the discussion and action constructive criticism, I'm not nearly convinced that there's ample justification for denying payment in this instance. As such this complaint will be closed and marked 'Found for the Player'.

ThePOGG

Hi ThePOGG, 

Thank you for your fast response!

It is not great info. But it is not bet also :)  If they return my deposit I will be satisfied. 

I have checked the casino and they corrected my balance so it is the amount of my deposit: 101 EUR.

But now I am a little bit doubtful that they will return my money to clickandbuy account.

I tried to withdraw and the note which pops up on screen is:

»ClickandBuy Unavailable - Due to current withdrawal limits, this withdrawal method is not available at the moment.«

It is the same notice with every withdraw method.

Can you please ask them if I will be able to withdraw the money and when?

Can you please be so kind and do not close my complaint before I withdraw the money before they actually return me my deposits.

I really appreciate it.
Katja

Hi katja76,

No problem at all.

Could you confirm whether you require me to contact 21 Grand or have you started the withdrawal process already?

Thanks

ThePOGG

Hi ThePOGG,

I ask you if you contact the 21 Grand.

I tried to start withdraw process but it is impossible, when I choose Withdraw and then method (Neteller or Clickandbuy, or any other) I get the note in the screen: Due to current withdrawal limits, this withdrawal method is not available at the moment (I can send you print screen if you need one).

I have not contact them, because I think it is better not to get involve with them. I trust you can communicate with them better than me :).

Thank you,
Katja

Hey katja76,

I've emailed 21 Grand management and will let you know as soon as I've received a response.

Thanks

ThePOGG

I'm glad to say that katja76 has now confirmed that their deposits have now been returned.

As of this time, our terms and conditions monitoring service has not detected any changes to the discussed terms and conditions at 21 Grand.

ThePOGG

21 Grand casino confiscated a players winnings due to use of the Martingale betting progression. We don&#039;t feel their terms were clear

Hello, 
 
 My situation is this;
 
 I played in 21 Grand Casino. Started on 14th of September. 
 
 I made two deposits:
 
 65 via credit card (visa)
 36 via clickandbuy
 
 
 I started with Roulette using method Martingale. I played some slot machines as well. 
 
 During few days I won €400. 
 
 I placed a request for withdrawal, sent all documents and waited. 
 
 Yesterday I got phone call from casino. 
 
 [EDIT] explained me that they won’t pay my winnings because I used a
 strategy that is against their regulations and she said I played
 against the rule 6.3 
 
 I asked if they can return me my deposits and she said that all she can do is return me second transaction 36 EUR and give me some extra bonus.
 
 
 GENERAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF 21 GRAND CASINO
 
 6. RULES OF PLAY
 
 6.1. In addition to these Terms and Conditions certain Rules of Play
 shall apply to you and be binding upon you in respect of your participation at the Casino. 
 
 6.2. You hereby agree to be bound by the aforementioned Rules of Play
 as if they were specifically incorporated into these Terms and Conditions.
 
 6.3. The casino reserves the right to void any winnings if player is
 suspected of fraud or fraudulent activity or if it is determined by the
 casino management that the player made use of computer systems, system
 play/wagering such as card counting e.g., including machine, computers
 and fraudulent software. 
 
 I asked [EDIT] from casino if she can write everything what I did wrong and email me. And she was like "No we will not write anything to you" and that was the reason I suspected that they aren’t being fair.
 
 Is using Martingale method really illegal? 
 
 Thank you for your help, 
 
 Best regards, 
 
 [EDIT] 
 
 Ps. I would like to upload some files.

21 Grand - Unfair rules of play

To submit an online gambling complaint, register a new account or log in.

Create account

Log in

Got a complaint about a gambling site?

Casino Review Site Logo

Log out

Account

Title

Complaint Details

Posted By

Disputed amount

Date raised

Date closed

Player’s Complaint

To protect the privacy of our users, all personally identifiable information has been redacted. If you see anything we've missed contact us at complaints@casinoreviews.com.

Player's Complaint

Player Complaint Responses

Complaint Title

This complaint may have been archived. If you are looking for information about your complaint, please contact us at complaints@casinoreviews.com

This link is no longer valid

Dynamic Single Complaint 

Default

IGT DE

All British Casino UK

Playtech ZA

Bank Transfer CA

Online Casinos UK

Cookie Policy DE

PayPal

Neteller UK

Spin Casino

ecoPayz IE

King Billy Casino CA

Free Spins IN

Casinos en vivo PE

Terms of Use DE

Mirax Casino CA

Oasis Poker

Hellspin Casino NZ

Roulette ZA

Rizk Casino IE

Bonos de Casino

ecoPayz UK

Live Casinos AT

IGT NZ

Yabby Casino IE

Casinos Online CL

Condiciones de uso MX

Dave Ellefson - Founding member of Megadeth

African Grand ZA

GrandWin Casino

Mirax 

Bank Transfer ZA

Guts Casino CA

Ken Smith Blackjack Tournament Expert

Diamond7 Casino 

Casino Games IN

Visa CA

bCasino.co.uk – A UK licensed operator with ties to the black market?

New Casinos IN

21Prive Casino

Queen Vegas NZ

All Complaints

Visa ZA

King Billy Casino

Skrill CA

PayPal NZ

500 Deposit NZ

32Red Casino

Paysafecard DE

Responsible Gambling IN

Casino War

21Red Casino

Game Providers UK

Qbet Casino

ecoPayz CH

Quickfire

Zahlungsmethoden CH

Ruleta CO

Betway Casino NZ

888 Casino

PayPal IE

Arctic Casino NZ

JackpotCity Casino Ontario

Responsible Gambling UK

Reclamaciones PE

Aristocrat

Microgaming DE

888 Casino CA

Grosvenor Casino

100 Deposit NZ

Online Casinos IE

Mirax NZ

Starda Casino IN

Casumo Casino Ontario

Bank Transfer IN

Wazamba Casino CA

Betsson CO

Baccarat CA

Vegas Crest NZ

Red Stag Casino IE

Live Casinos NZ

Casumo Casino NZ

KingdomAce Casino

Mobile Casinos

CasinoLuck

Dinero real

Blackjack MX

Playtech DE

Visa IN

SlotsMagic Casino NZ

Bizzo Casino CL

Craps UK

Boku ZA

WSM Casino CA

888 Casino Ontario

Slots UK

Cobra Casino NZ

JackpotCity Casino IE

Cobber Casino AT

Política de privacidad MX

Whistleblowing Policy

Baccarat IE

Casino4u AT

Juegos de Casino CO

Casino Classic NZ

Casino Bonus AT

VIP Casinos CH

Free Spins for Adding Card UK

Contacta con nosotros CL

Ultra Casino NZ

Royal Panda Casino

Bally ZA

Wildz Casino Ontario

Neue Casinos DE

Bitcoin AT

Best Payout casinos NZ

Dinero real MX

Jackpot Village Casino

Villento Casino

Wazamba Casino

Zaza Casino

Interac 

Playtech CA

Fresh Casino

Casino Games ZA

Spielautomaten CH

Fresh Casino IN

Quickfire NZ

Izzi Casino CA

LuckyWins NZ

Beste Auszahlungen in Casinos DE

Euro Palace Casino NZ

Ladbrokes Casino

Spielautomaten AT

Payment Methods

IGT IN

SpinBetter Casino NZ

Bally CH

Aristocrat UK