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Hi gvolt62 - welcome to ThePOGG.com!

Before we go any further, is there any reason that you may have shared an IP address with another user?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Not at all ! I don't know how an IP is allocated. What I know is that I have created my account from home computer but I have accessed my account from office computer or my mobile phone and tablet media. What is also interesting is that in office computer, due to a strict firewall procees in place, in certain cases I have used a browser extension named "Zenmate" that changes IP address to an IP from another country and thus I manage to access otherwise blocked sites.

Hi gvolt62,

You don't know how an IP is allocated, but you know enough that using Zenmate will change your IP? That's a curious cross section of knowledge.

More significantly though, having looked up the IP address that you've logged into this site with, it is registered to the country you are resident in, but is also associated with a VPN service (i.e. this wasn't Zenmate and hasn't happen without your knowledge). These services are commonly associated with fraud related activities, so if you've been using a VPN then there's already a big red flag related to your account.

I will contact the operator, but if their logs show other accounts using the same IP addresses as you've logged in from there's nothing we can do to help you.

ThePOGG

When you are working in a company environment with a firewall blocking almost everything, even sports or leisure sites or tha stock market and there is somebody coming with a brilliant idea you don't think about it that much. Also when you activate Zenmate there is a message popping up "you now seem connected from xxx country" so you don't have to be sw engineer to understand that it changes your IP. From what I remember I have not placed bets from my office, I use it only for checking bets from previous day. Now if you are so lucky that this IP is the same with another customer from this bookmaker ... I still cannot understand how this can be my case. But still the bookmaker can try to identify if it is the same person. They can phone me they can ask me to prepare photos holding papers, videos, whatever and they can do the same with the other account holder. They didnot do anything like this. When I submitted all papers they asked (I sent them even my tax declaration document), they freezed my account. I should mention here that you don't really have a motive to abuse them, their odds are below average, their bonus system is the average in the market and they put very fast low max. stakes in the bets. Also in my case I have deposited more money to what I asked for. So how on earth have I abused their system ? What do I have gained from them ?

Hi gvolt62,

I'm aware of how Zenmate functions as I use it myself to access term documents on sites that restrict UK player. However, this doesn't explain the fact that you've logged on to THIS site with an IP address associated with a VPN service located in Greece. i.e. you're using a proxy server located in Greece to mask the IP of where you're really accessing from. You've not logged in from another country as you've just described using Zenmate to do.

With regard to ID, it makes no difference if you can provide ID. Lot's of people buy, rent or steal ID from other people to use to claim bonuses they're not entitled to. Legally this is fraud. Using a VPN fits the pattern that these people engage in. That's why there are strict rules about accounts sharing IPs. If you've used a service to mask your IP address that is also likely to be used by customers related in fraud, you have broken terms and fit a profile where giving you the benefit of the doubt that this was innocent would be unwise.

With regard to your workplace - they've obviously put these measures in place because you're not meant to be accessing gambling services from their machines or during their time. If you've intentionally engaged software to allow to bypass your employers rules and this has ended up making you look like a potential fraudster I'd suggest there's a lesson to be learned there.

With regard to incentive - having looked at the B-Bet bonus terms, they actually allow a far higher wager than the vast majority of the market so these bonuses are more attractive in that sense. 

Bottom line here is that if you have shared an IP address with other users you have broken terms and conditions. While your explanations <strong>may</strong> offer a plausible alternative to fraud, it doesn't change the fact that you've broken terms and put yourself in a high risk bracket at the same time. I'll contact the operator but I've already been clear that if this is the case there's nothing we can do for you.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

First of all regarding this VPN thing that you repeat continuously ... I don't know what you're talking about. What I can tell is that long ago -must be 2 years or even more- at some time I couldnot access couple of bookmakers -must have been Matchbook and 1xbet if I remember correctly ... message was coming from the Greek Gambling Orgainzation that it is not allowed to access these sites. I was frustrated that I couldnot reach my accounts with over 1K inside and also emails were bouncing back ... after some time I met somebody in a computer repair shop that promised me a quick solution to overcome this .. and that happened. I restored access and got my money... Honestly I didnot bother to bring it back after this. I don't know what the expert guy did in my computer but if needed I will try to get somebody who knows more to explain to me. But this has nothing to do with B-bets. B-bets is not blocked in my country ... You can perfectly access this and create an account. The gambling organization here maintains a black list with bookmakers that it is illegal to bet on. There is also a white list with the legal ones. Except from them there is a grey area with those that you play on your own risk. For example for a new comer it may take a while to enter the black list (or get a license). They will not prosecute you if you bet on the gey ones but nobody knows if they will be inserted in the black list or not and when. 
Regarding the rest of your message .. I can see that in a way you are "repremanding" me -forgive me if I don't use the word properly- as if the fault is on me ! The fault is clearly on them !!! They got my money so easily ... they were supposed to make their own investigation using thei own system and they found that I am guilty without any explanation ! I believe that this happens for the first time. Even if you're taken to court you will hear what you are accused for  before being sentenced .. and you always have the right ot defend yourself. I tried to talk to them in a calm and polite way and ask for their findings to try to see if there is some misunderstanding but they were so arrogant and cut immediately the discussion. So they got 1841 euro just like that. I am still not informed on what I am accused of ... 1) I am in control of 2 or more accounts with fake personal data ? 2) I let other people logon to my account and place bets ? 3) I have created a partnership with other people and bet in a combined manner ? There is nothing and this is plausible because I AM CLEAN and they CANNOT ACCUSE ME ON ANYTHING. I have been betting for more than 20 years, I am an owner of a big family with 4 kids and I AM NOT A CHEATER. All these year I have built nice customer relationships and trust and I get more bonuses than them. This clause exist in other bookmakers terms and conditions but nobody uses like that !  These guys have the problem, not me. I have not found such a bad faith anywhere else ! If you search in internet forums, you will see lots of similar complaints from unwary users about this and the other 3 sister companies (Rembrandt Casino, 24bettle, and Casinosieger) which adopt the same practices. And I can ensure you that no matter what will be the case with the help that you may give me I will cointinue fighting against them with all my efforts. I am sorry for the long memo.

Hi gvolt62,

I'm afraid your account simply doesn't match the information we have. Our site logs your IP address when you submit a complaint. You did use a VPN located in Greece to submit this complaint. That's not something that happens accidentally. 

Using a VPN to hide your location is a practice that's commonly associated with players engaged in fraudulent practices. Given that the operator has already clearly stated that they believe you to be engaged in multi-accounting, we have immediate concerns for obvious reasons.

With regard to explanations - where fraud is detected no operator will explain to you how you were caught. This would only serve to educate you as to how to avoid getting caught next time round. That's a standard practice across the industry implemented to ensure that crime is not facilitated.

I do understand your frustrations regarding not being able to review the evidence yourself, but that's what 3rd party mediation services and regulators are for.

Finally, most operators will immediately close accounts where they find them sharing IP addresses. That's standard practice across the industry. We will discuss this issue with the operator, but as stated above, if they demonstrate that you're account shared a common IP with other account/s there will be nothing we can do to support you.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

As I told you already, long ago (2-3 years before) I had taken my home PC to a computer shop in order to restore access to bookmakers that were banned all of a sudden by Greek Gambling organization via the ISPs of course. Today I called a network expert to check who told me that my PC had switched routing to Google public DNS (I have kept snapshot if interested) and so it bypassed the ISP. I have switched back the DNS routing to my ISP as you perhaps can monitor from my current message. I never had problems like b-bets when I created accounts to other sportsbook bookmakers. Only with B-bets I see now how big problem it created. I come from the sportsbook world, I play only on soccer/basketball and you cannot really abuse there  and now I see that the sensitivity in the casinoworld is much higher. You understad that I have had no intention to commit fraud otherwise I would use a private network as you suggested initially. With public DNS you don't have controll over IP, the IPs are allocated by google servers. You only put 8.8.8.8 as preferred DNS and all is managed by google.This is perhaps why B-bets sees different IPs at my logins as google use various servers througout the country,I don't know how. It is also possible for some IP to be used by another customer of B-bets at another time. I hope we agree that a shared IP cannot solely constitute a reason for freezing an account. I have see complaints from one of the sister companies about a customer who logged in from a public wi-fi network and then he was accused for multi-account as another customer logged in at another time via the same network. I think this is absurd. So hopefully you and the bookmaker will understand that here we had a "knowledge gap",I didnotdo anything intentionally, my betting pattern cannot correlate to any other betting pattern and also if I was a fraudster I would gain much  more money than my deposits. I would like to apologize to the bookmaker and since my home IP is stable now to restore my trust and possibly bet again.

Hi gvolt62,

No I'm afraid we don't agree - there's a clear statement in the terms and conditions you agreed to that multiple registrations from a single IP is prohibited. It is YOUR responsibility to ensure you don't breach that.

More to the point your explanation still doesn't cover what we've seen - the IP you submitted your complaint from is registered to a company specifically advertising their VPN services. Google is very unlikely to be paying to reroute through their services.

As it happens, sports betting while not as susceptible is still vulnerable to multi-accounting to claim bonuses that a single account would not be entitled to. 

The simple facts here are that if you've accessed your account from an IP that matches other accounts you've broken terms and you're not in a position where you're going to be given the benefit of the doubt. It's simply not going to happen.

ThePOGG

I can see that you increase your tone for some reason. I have given you all my data and I don't expect that type of behaviour.If you dont feel like equally mediating to this case just say that and I will check my possibilities for some other solution. I am about to lose all my money and instead for some support I get also your skold ! strange indeed !

As for where I registered my complaint. If it was morning time business hour it can be only my office computer with zenmate on (so german IP) or with zenmate off (so under my office proxy/firewall. If it is evening hour it can be only my home computer so Google DNS . NOTHING MORE THAN THAT, OK ? 

As for the shared IPs you are not allowed to login your account from an internet cafe ? how do you know that the IP that you get there will not be allocated to another user a day after ? Look at a complaint from a guy from Belgium in the sister company 24bettle in askgamblers and how finally he persuaded the book

So if you don't feel like supporting this case just tell me and I will cancel it

Hi gvolt62,

We've done nothing of the sort. I've been clear with you that if you have broken casino terms and conditions there's nothing we can do to help you. I've also been clear that the information that we have about your activity on THIS site does not agree with the account you are giving. That means that either our IP detection system has coincidentally malfunctioned in a way that unfortunately undermines your case or you're not being entirely honest in the account you are giving.

I will again point out that YOU agreed to terms regarding your IP address. If you've then engaged software that puts you at risk of sharing an IP address with another user that is your responsibility. 

As stated from the beginning of this conversation, we will contact the operator but if they provide evidence demonstrating that you have shared an IP with other users we will not support your claim. 

ThePOGG

The complaint was submitted the morning time of the 6th July from the Hellenic network for public employees. So all public employees of the country are organized in a special WAN network within internet in order to have the same priviledges, the same restrictions, the same rules. This network is called SYZEYKSIS and this probably is what you understand as VPN. It is NOT a VPN as the commercial VPNs.

The relevant clauses from B-bets regarding multi accounts are listed below

"Each Player is allowed to open only one Account per person, family, household, IP address and email address. Use of more than one Account per physical Player is known as “multi-accounting” and as such is strictly forbidden.
In the event that We suspect that a Player is opening multiple accounts by using the same or similar names, address, telephones, email addresses, same or similar dynamic IP addresses, computer or other devices, with the intent of defrauding or cheating, We reserve the right to close an Account or Accounts at any time and to cancel all the transactions, bets, waive winnings and deduct bonuses from all relevant Accounts.
In the event that We suspect that a Player is acting as a part of the Player’s collusion undertaken with the intent of defrauding and cheating, meaning by using the same or similar names, address, telephones, email addresses, same or similar dynamic IP addresses, computer or other devices and acting on same or similar pattern, We reserve the right to block the relevant Account(s). Following the internal investigation We reserve the right to close an Account or Accounts at any time and to cancel all the transactions, bets, waive winnings and deduct bonuses from all relevant Accounts.
Condor Group reserves the right to block regular or tournament play and/or prize distribution should any evidence of multi-accounting or collusion arise." 

Of course it is not allowed to REGISTER 2 accounts from THE SAME IP. There is nothing stating that it is multi account if one user SIMPLY LOGS IN from different IPS in his account. There is nothing stating that it is multi account if one user SIMPLY LOGS IN from one IP to his account and another user SIMPLY LOGS IN to his account from the same IP at some other time.  

Suppose that 2 b-bets customers are in the same big hotel at the same time ... isn't it possible to log in from same or similar IPs ? 

If this was the case then they should mention in their terms and conditions clearly that the account can be accessed SOLELY from the registered IP.

Hi gvolt62,

I'm afraid that still doesn't cover our records. I'm not saying anything further about this issue other than your explanation does not address our concerns.

We're going round and round in circles here - I've been absolutely clear - if your account is sharing an IP address with another account that's the end of the discussion as far as we're concerned. If you are unhappy with that answer you are free to take your case to anyone else you wish, but that's our position.

ThePOGG

OK can you please caancel this complaint, if I am correct I have the right to ask for it

Hi gvolt62,

You can withdraw from the complaint process at any point you wish, but we will follow this through to the end and offer the operator the opportunity to respond.

ThePOGG

Do as you like but please let them know that I have removed my interest from your mediation services. I am routing my problem through a different channel and I don't want to confuse them.

Hi gvolt62,

I've finally managed to get the operator to discuss this issue. They've informed me that they managed to contact you by phone yesterday and have decided to both re-open your account and return your balance.

You should be able to withdraw whenever you like.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

While there have been concerns about this player's activities, B-Bets have decided to reopen their account and return their balance.

I have used the services of this casino bookmaker with operating url www.b-bets.com since March '17 basically their sportsbook platform which has a Curacao License No. 1668/JAZ issued by Curaçao eGaming. Almost 1 month ago at a time where I had deposited totally 2036 euro and had gained totally 465 euro as promotional bonuses, with all wager reqs met, I asked for withdraw all my balance equal to 1841 euros. While discussing with them what docs to forward for KYC verification, I noticed my account blocked (actual status "freezed") and I couldn't login at all even to check balance and transaction history. After asking them through live chat they informed me that my account was "suspected for multi - account" and this can be a breach on their terms&amp;conditions. I explained to them that I was surprised to hear that and I don't have any connection with improper betting procedures. They told me they will do ther best to sort this out. In 3 weeks time they informed me via email that (copying) :
 
 
 "We have received a feedback from our player management and we need to inform you that your account has been banned at our casino due to violation of our terms in creating more than one account per one IP, there were detected more than 2 accounts on the same IP you used. Therefore this decision is final and account reopening cannot be considered accordingly" . I told them I am unaware and I don't have any connection to anything like this and I am eager to see their data proving this. They sent me nothing, no clue or evidence. I have contacted also their licensing authorities via an in-built online form but got no response.
 
 

B-bets.com - blocked my account and confiscated my balance

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