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Hi jfl59,

I've had a quick look at this issue myself. While I don't monitor the terms at BetsKing as I've not published their review yet, I do monitor the terms and conditions at all 3 of their sister properties; Long Harbour, Monte and Yachting. At all of these properties my monitor has been in place since the 21st of August and registers no changes to the terms. The relevant terms are in place now and as such were in place on the 21st of August. As the terms and conditions of the casinos in this group are almost word for word the same at the casinos in this group, I can't see why the terms at BetsKing would have differed from those of the other casinos in their group.

I would also highlight that as far as I can see you have in fact breached the terms and conditions. The rule regarding bet decreases are as follows;

<blockquote style="border: 2px solid #666;padding: 10px;background-color: #ccc">A player who wagers high value hands with the sole purpose of rapidly increasing bonus bankroll, then proceeds to drastically decrease their bet values (less than half) without having reasonably decreased his/her bankroll, will be considered to employing unnatural betting patterns for the purpose of gaining advantage. </blockquote>

By your own account you were betting €70/spin and you decreased your bets ultimately to €30. Half of €70 is €35. €30 is less than half of €70 and therefore if you had not completed the wagering requirement when this bet reduction occurred, you have broken this term. Having moved your bets down in steps (€70 to €50 to €30) doesn't change the overall reduction.

Forward on the screenshot of Google Cache to webmaster@thepogg.com and I'll discuss this with BetsKings.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi jfl59,

BetsKing have acknowledged that the term itself was not in place at the time you deposited but was added shortly afterwards. They feel their general terms cover this as you were playing in an abusive fashion, I disagree as the terms don't directly state what it is about your play that they feel is abusive. Regardless the casino has in this case agreed to return your balance, but your account will be blocked from playing with any of their casinos in the future - consider this formal notification that you are bared from BetsKing and all associated properties - and there terms will be updated to include a maximum allowed bet restriction from this point on.

If you would let me know when you've withdrawn your funds and they've arrived with you I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Well that is good news. Thank you for mediating this issue for me. Did betsKING send you a list of all 'associated properties'? I just tried to login to my account but I get the message "YOUR ACCOUNT HAS BEEN DEACTIVATED!" should I email the casino directly or are you able to follow up with them?

Hi jfl59,

I've just followed up on this and you should have received this email today;

<blockquote style="border: 2px solid #666;padding: 10px;background-color: #ccc">Dear Ms [REMOVE]LIM[REMOVE],
 
Please be informed that you can now request a withdrawal from your player's account. For your withdrawal to be processed, we would need to receive and verify the documentation below, initially requested on the 25 august 2014.
 
Also, please note that this access has been granted to you for the sole purpose of requesting your withdrawal. Therefore, please refrain from playing any games as any winnings generated will be confiscated.
 
Reminder of requested documents:
 
- Copies (Front and Back) of a government issued ID with a photo and signature. (Passport, Driving license, ID card)
–- Copy of a recent utility bill, payslip or bank statement bearing your name and address as registered on your Player account and no older than 3 months)
- Copy of the credit card/s you have used in our site (front and back, you must hide the CVV number)
 
Once your account verified, we will proceed with your payment.
 
 
Regards,
[EDIT]
Fraud and Payment Department</p></blockquote>

Let me know once you've submitted your ID.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi jfl59,

Have you received your funds?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi jfl59,

If I've not received feedback from you by Friday the 10th of October I'll assume that you've been paid and this issue has been resolved.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

I have not received my funds yet. I am also limited to withdrawing €1,000 at a time so it may take some time before I have fully received my funds.

Hi jfl59 - thanks for getting back to me.

If you could let me know as instalments come through I would appreciate it.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi jfl59,

Can you confirm how many instalments you've received so far?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

I have checked my bank statement online and it shows I received the last installment earlier this week.

Thank you for your help in recovering my winnings.

Hi jfl59 - thanks for letting me know and I'm glad to hear you've received your funds.

I'm closing this complaint as 'Resolved' and am thrilled to say that this success has put ThePOGG.com over $250k returned to players!!

ThePOGG

A terms and conditions issue was resolved and BetsKing returned this player's full balance to them after security verification.

Hi ThePogg,
 
 I have a dispute with BetsKing. My email address is [EDIT]. I have followed BetsKing’s complaints procedure, including sending them an email with “complaint” in the subject. Discussions have broken down between me and BetsKing, which is why I am approaching ThePogg to mediate.
 
 — Overview —
 
 The amount in dispute is €7190. BetsKing have voided my winnings and closed my account for (allegedly) breaking their terms &amp; conditions. However, the terms they rely on were not part of the T&amp;Cs when I played at the casino. In addition, my play still would not have broken their terms even if they had been in force at the time.
 
 — Timeline —
 
 14/08/2014: Registered, deposited €350 and received €350 sign up bonus. Played on slots. Reached a balance of €7190. Withdrew €1000.
 
 19/08/2014: Sent off identification documents (although message was returned as undeliverable).
 
 27/08/2014: Withdrawal of €1000 reversed back into my account as my identification documents were not received.
 
 28/08/2014: I played a little bit more on slots and withdrew €1000 again.
 
 02/09/2014: Email from BetsKing:
 
 {We regret to inform that after investigation, your game play has been reported as abusive towards bonus offer.As stated in our terms and conditions – section Bonuses, such accounts are being closed permanently after completion of the investigation.}
 
 02/09/2014: I replied asking for an explanation and evidence of how my conduct broke the terms and conditions, including full account and play history.
 
 03/09/2014: Email from BetsKing refers to the following terms:
 
 {….Players staking 10% or over the value of their real money deposit in a single bet prior to wagering the deposit 5 times or over, with the intention of drastically increasing their bankroll will be flagged as high-risk players and shall be monitored. Example: a player depositing €100, then immediately proceeds to wager over €20 per hand will be deemed high-risk user. High-risk players will not automatically be deemed advantage users, but will fall under a higher level of security and their gameplay will be monitored for changes in bet value.
 
 A player who wagers high value hands with the sole purpose of rapidly increasing bonus bankroll, then proceeds to drastically decrease their bet values (less than half) without having reasonably decreased his/her bankroll, will be considered to employing unnatural betting patterns for the purpose of gaining advantage. Such cases may require the Casino to immediately disqualify the bonus and any winnings therefrom derived. Each case will be investigated and acted upon accordingly. This type of game-play is thus strongly discouraged.
 
 Any player found to be employing a strategy by which the player places high value bets while playing on any game with specific bonus weight decreased to or less than 30% (any table game, card game, video poker etc.) and then proceeds to place bets of a value less than their current average bet while changing game type to higher weighted games (slots, scratch cards etc.); such player will be immediately disqualified from the bonus and face enforcement where the player’s account may be closed. In such regard no discussions will be to be entered into.}
 
 03/09/2014: I did not remember these terms when I checked them at the time that I played, so I checked on Google cache, which had the page saved on 23/08/2014 and the relevant terms were not present. 
 
 I sent BetsKing an email explaining that the terms they are relying on were not in force at the time that I played with a bonus (14/08/2014), and included a link to Google’s cached page. 
 
 I have a screenshot of the Google cache page from 23/08/2014 as evidence, since the cached page changes from time to time and is now from a later date.
 
 10/09/2014: BetsKing sent through my play logs by email. It shows that I played 56 x €70 spins, 300 x €50 spins, and then 50 x €30 spins.
 
 In the email, BetsKing again tried to rely on the above terms which were not in force at the time that I played at their casino. 
 
 In any case, although I placed bets over 10%, the terms only state that this behaviour means that an account would be monitored for changes in bet value. In terms of changes in bet value, I only changed my bets from €70 to €50, and then after 300 spins from €50 to €30. This is not a drastic decrease as I did not change my bet size by more than a half - so I would not have broken the terms even if they had been in existence at the time that I played. However, I must reiterate that these terms were added at a later date, so they are not enforceable anyway!
 
 — Conclusion —
 
 BetsKing are trying to rely on terms they added after I played in order to avoid paying me €7190 which I won while playing with a bonus. In addition, my play would still be acceptable within these terms even if they had been in existence at the time. I would like BetsKing to reinstate my balance in full and pay me my winnings.

BetsKing - Relying on terms added afterwards to void winnings

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