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Hi jonny_1610 - welcome to ThePOGG.com!

We run a term monitoring service that checks daily for changes at ChanceHill casino. I'll check when I return from Malta next week whether the general terms have been changed after you played.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi jonny_1610,

I have checked with our term monitoring service and I'm afraid to say that the restriction on wagering on Live Games was in place on the 19th of October at the time of your play. Included below is a screen shot of our monitoring service for the term in question:

<img src="http://thepogg.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/chance-hill-live-games-terms-1.png"></img>

The there have been enough changes to this page since this point that we can no longer access the full report but as you'll be able to see in the image (you can view the full size image here - http://thepogg.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/chance-hill-live-games-terms-1.png) the terms were changed on the 15th and the 20th of October.

The change dated the 20th of October, the only change after your play, comprised a total of 24 words added. You can see directly underneath a section of newly added text highlighted in yellow. This section comprises a total of 22 words leaving only 2 newly added words unaccounted for. 

The first report that we can still access fully is dated the 26th and can be seen below:

<img src="http://thepogg.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/chance-hill-live-games-terms-2.png"></img>

Again you can see the full size image here - http://thepogg.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/chance-hill-live-games-terms-2.png. The only change to occur between these dates happened on the 24th of October and removed 8 words and as such can be discounted. You will be able to see that the the report on the 26th records the exclusion of Live Games as already present on the previous version of the terms (as it's not highlighted in yellow).

So working through this logically we know that:

i) the term was present on the 26th

ii) the term could not have been added on the 24th as the only change on that date was the removal of 8 words

iii) the term could not have been added on the 20th as of the 24 words added to the page on that day, 22 are accounted for and adding the Live Game exclusion would have required 'Live Games 0%' - 3 words. This is more than the unaccounted for total of added words.

iv) The next nearest change occurred on the 15th, before your play and as such isn't relevant.

I'm sorry to say that in this case the restriction on playing Live Games was in place at the time of your play.

ThePOGG

Hi ThePOGG,

I think you have got confused here, it looks like you have assumed I claimed a deposit bonus? I did not claim a deposit bonus, I deposited my own cash and took part in a cashback promotion.

In fact the first screenshot you posted confirms my claim. I deposited and played the cashback promotion on 19th October, and the text regarding Table Games not being eligible for cashback was added on 20th, the day after the promotion.

Hi jonny_1610,

If this is a cashback promotion you would appear to be right. I will contact the operator to discuss.

ThePOGG

Hi jonny_1610,

I'll need you to provide your username and email address to proceed.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Just checked my Chance Hill account, still no cashback payment.

Hi jonny_1610,

At the present time Chance Hill are contesting that you're due any payment so until such time as we've concluded our investigation there's no reason to expect funds in your account.

I'll let you know when I've reached the appropriate point in that conversation.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Ok no problem, didn't realise you were still in contact with them, was just giving an update from my end.

Hi ThePOGG, just following up on your investigation. Have you managed to reach an agreement with Chance Hill?

Hi jonny_1610,

There's still an extended conversation going on regarding this issue. I'd appreciate it if you could confirm your country of residence asap?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi jonny_1610,

After a long discussion with the operator here's the situation.

Chance Hill updated the bonus page with a restriction for table games before the 19th. However they did not update the terms and conditions page until the 20th. As the advertorial page is non-binding in a contractual sense, this does not meet the requirements to impose such a restriction. In short, you are required to read the terms and conditions page before you participate in any promotion. You are not bound to read the advert.

As such it has been determined that you are indeed entitled to some cashback. The below term was included at the time of your play:

<blockquote style="border: 2px solid #666;padding: 10px;background-color: #ccc">Cashback bonuses are issued upon the lost deposited amount.</blockquote>

As such I've had to spend time reviewing your balance to determine the make up of the funds lost. This has been a time consuming and is a little complex to explain, so I would ask for your patience.

On Wednesday the 19th of October your balance was comprised of the following chunks:

2500 deposit
375 bonus/cashback credited on the 17th
450 left over from previous play on the 16th

The 2500 can be considered for cashback as it is deposited funds. The 375 cannot be considered for cashback. The 450 potentially could be considered for cashback dependent on the make up of the balance on the 16th.

The total balance at start of play on the 19th was 3325 and the total loss over the day was 2500 (with a remaining balance of 825). The remaining 825 sums perfectly the 375 bonus and 450 balance remaining from the previous play. As such the order in which funds are used plays a significant role in determining which funds would be considered lost. For instance, if bonus funds were used first, that would immediately reduce the balance that could be considered for cashback by 375 and potentially a further 450 depending on the make up of the funds from the 16th.

On review, the Chance Hill terms and conditions fail to define the order in which funds are used. As such, rather than ruling to one extreme or the other, I've take the approach that funds used should reflect the proportion of fund type at the start of play. That being the case the make up of the balance left over from the play on the 16th had to be established first.

The starting balance on the 16th was comprised of 2500 deposited funds and 450 cashback. The total balance would be 2950 and the % of that balance that was non-deposited funds would be 450/2950*100 = 15.26%. So if there was 450 left, 450*0.1526 = 68.65 could be considered non-deposited funds and 381.35 would be deposited funds. 

So now we move on to the play on the 19th. The breakdown of the balance would now be as follows:

2500 deposit
375 non-deposited
381.35 deposit + 68.65 non-deposited

Giving totals of:

2881.35 deposit and 443.65 non-deposited.

Therefore the % of the starting balance that was non-deposited funds would be 443.65/3325*100 = 13.34%. So of the lost 2500, 13.34% would be considered non-deposited (333.50) meaning a total deposited balance loss of 2166.50 (2500-333.50) and a total cashback due of 2166.50*0.2 = 433.30.

Chance Hill have conceded that the promotional page does not constitute an binding contract and have agreed with the above calculations. They have also asked me to pass along their apologies for this situation.

While this was a little more involved than I would have ideally preferred, I hope the above is clear enough that you can follow the thought process. The 433.30 cashback should now be available in your account.

Wishing you all the best for the festive season.

ThePOGG

Hi jonny_1610,

Have you managed to access your funds?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi ThePogg, I have managed to access the £433 thank you. I must disagree with your calculations, as I think it is quite clear I deposited £2,500 and wagered £2,500 for the cashback offer, there are no terms on the order of funds used. This decision also contradicts previous cashback payments from Chance Hill I have received, so I can't see any basis for it.

I'm willing to draw a line under this complaint though, and I must thank you for contacting Chance Hill to resolve this complaint, it certainly seemed like an uphill struggle! I won't be playing there again, but I see they are recommended at ThePogg? Am I likely to encounter similar issues at other sites recommended by ThePogg?

Hi jonny_1610,

I'm sorry to hear that you're unhappy with the decision, but having looked at the issue from both sides this seems to be the fairest interpretation and the reasons for the ruling have been explained very clearly. 

Nevertheless, I understand that you wanted the full £500. I cannot comment on what treatment you will receive in future from operators that we have no part in managing. All I can suggest is that if you've lost faith in our service there's nothing compelling you to follow our recommendations in future. While Chance Hill are on our recommended list you weren't referred via our links so you clearly have other sources for finding casinos to play with.

All the best for 2017,

ThePOGG

ChanceHill changed their promotional material but failed to change their terms and conditions. As such they've now paid the player the due cash back.

Hi,
 
 I am a VIP at Chance Hill Casino. I have attempted to resolve this complaint with the VIP manager, but she has dismissed my complaint and is now refusing to respond.
 
 I deposited on 19th October 2016 for the Chance Hill Wednesday cash back promotion, and lost my deposit playing in the Live Casino. In previous weeks I had received the cash back without issue.
 
 On 20th October I did not receive my cash back on losses so I contacted my VIP manager. At first she did not reply but eventually she said that play in the Live Casino did not count. I found this strange as I was only informed of a change of terms (that excluded table games) on 25th October via email. I checked the website at this time, and the terms had been updated. I then checked the Chance Hill promotions page on Bing using their cached page feature, which showed the term excluding table games from Wednesday cash back was not there on 19th October.
 
 I presented a screenshot of the conditions listed on the promotions page to Chance Hill who dismissed my complaint, claiming that although they had updated the promotions page after I played, the term had always been there in their general terms. Unfortunately I cannot verify this as I can find no cached copy of their general terms, but you have my word that a term restricting table games from cash back was not there.
 
 Combining the promotions page update after my play, and the email notifying me of a terms change after my play, I believe the term excluding table games was not suitably in place on 19th October.
 
 I would like to receive the £500 cashback owed to me.

ChanceHill - £500 Cashback not honoured due to terms change after playing

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