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Hi spinnertje - welcome to ThePOGG.com!

Your complaint submission is incomplete because you have used a restricted character. Please provide the rest of your complaint.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hi, sorry about that, here is the full message I posted without the restricted characters.

After depositing 150 EUR and getting a 200% deposit bonus through a Skrill deposit ( I was never supposed to even get this bonus, Skrill is excluded in the T&amp;C ), I attempted to withdraw my winnings, the live chat support told me that I was unable to withdraw the winnings because of the active bonus money.

I asked if the bonus could be forfeited, and they said it couldnt, I had to beat the wager.

Since I was playing with my REAL balance, I was buying bonuses (100x bet), I asked the support chat if this was okay and they told me it was fine, and I could continue doing so.

So I continued to wager the balance, and I NEVER used bonus funds to play, this is very important! The bonus funds were 297 EUR at the very start (200% bonus minus fee) and 297 EUR at the very end (never touched any bonus funds!!!)

After beating the wager, I still had a balance of slightly over 2,000 EUR left, and I cashed out 1,998 EUR in funds.
A few days later I received an e-mail from DreamVegas, saying that my wins had been confiscated because I broke the terms and conditions.
The reasons given to me were: 

A) Using a deposit bonus with Skrill

B) Betting higher than the 5 EUR maximum bet.

It should be clear to you at this point that in no way, shape, or form, either of these were my responsibility, considering the facts that:

A1) The casino is responsible for giving out deposit bonuses, not the player
A2) The player requested the bonus to be forfeited / cancelled, which the casino DENIED to do (essentially validating the bonus)
A3) The player has no control over his bonus balance, the casino is in 100% full charge of the balance and which bonus, if any, is applied.

B1) The player ONLY used REAL balance to play, NEVER using any bonus money.
B2) The player asked a casino representative about the rule and was told this was allowed.

I am happy to provide any evidence or chat transcripts if necessary.

Thank you very much, I hope to hear back from you soon.

Have a great day

Hi spinnertje - welcome to ThePOGG.com!

As we are the ADR for the White Hat Gaming license under the Malta Gaming Authority license there is certain information we have to provide you now.

You can find all the relevant information about this service here – http://thepogg.com/terms-of-use/ and the terms of use for our complaint service here - https://thepogg.com/terms-of-use-for-dispute-resolution-service/

To summarise.

– Use of this service does not preclude your seeking redress through court proceedings .

– This service is free to use for both the complainant and operator.

– At any point during the procedure the submitting party retains the right to withdraw their complaint. This does not preclude our right to continue the discussion with the involved operator of general issues related to the complaint (i.e. insufficiently clear terms and conditions).
https://thepogg.com/terms-of-use-for-dispute-resolution-service/

– You are not obliged to obtain independent or legal advice or representation, though you may choose to do so.

If you have any questions about the above, let me know.

With regard to your complaint:

i) had you started wagering before you requested that the bonus be removed?

ii) Whether you were using bonus funds or deposit funds is irrelevant. All bonus restrictions apply from the point of deposit until such time as you have completed the wagering requirement. Were you explicitly told by the operator that you were allowed to bet more than €5 per round while there was a bonus in your account?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hello, thanks for the response.

To answer your questions:

I) The casino purposefully misleads you by showing "REAL balance" and "BONUS balance" as SEPERATE balances, the BONUS money was NEVER used for ANY play AT ALL. Apparently wagering had started, but this was clearly obfuscated with intent to mislead.

II) Yes, I was explicitly told. Here is a transcript of the chat in question (I have screenshots)

(04:16:23)	[EDIT]: Can I do bonus buys?
(04:19:00)	[EDIT] : This option has now been removed. You will not be able to do so.
(04:19:32)	[EDIT]: I was able to play a bonus buy just now
(04:20:03)	[EDIT]: If I can click it, I can play it, right?
(04:20:17)	[EDIT]: I'm assuming you set the boundaries in the games
(04:21:06)	[EDIT] : Alright. If it is available, you may continue to do so.
(04:21:21)	[EDIT]: Alright, thank you so much for clearing this up
(04:21:41)	[EDIT]: Is there anything else I should know? I want to play fair and square
(04:22:43)	[EDIT] : As you have claimed the welcome offer, please note maximum bet is 5.00 EUR

So as this indicates, the maximum bet for regular play is 5.00 EUR, but I WAS told I could do bonus buys by 'Sandra'.

I believe Dream Vegas is intentionally misleading players in order to confiscate their winnings, they have this same 'Real balance - Bonus balance' system in their sister casinos as well, it is deceiving and most likely illegal.

Thank you for looking at my case, I hope you have a great day.

Hi Spinnertje,

It is common practice across the industry to show the breakdown in balance between bonus and real funds. However there is no exclusion within the bonus terms to exempt real funds from the restrictions that are incurred when a bonus is added to your account. I need you to answer yes or no - had you placed wagers before contacting the operator to request that the bonus was removed?

Can you please forward screen shots of this Live Chat to <a href="mailto:complaints@thepogg.com" rel="nofollow ugc">complaints@thepogg.com</a>?

Thanks,

ThePOGG

Hello,
Thank you again for your swift response, I appreciate it.

Unfortunately I won't be home for about a week, so I will not be able to provide screenshots until then, however, I do have access to the chat transcripts in my e-mail.

To answer your question: Yes, I did play bets before asking the bonus to be forfeited, however, it is nowhere stated that CASH balance is locked in wagering.
Actually, to be quite frank, in the BONUS TERMS &amp; CONDITIONS on the Dream Vegas website, it is stated that:

5.1
A player's total account balance consists of a cash account balance (‘Cash Balance’) and a bonus account balance (‘Bonus Balance’). All sums which you deposit into your account shall be placed in your Cash Balance. Sums which you receive under a bonus for performing particular tasks are paid into your Bonus Balance.

And

5.3
The deposit and possible winnings connected to the bonus will be locked to the casino account until the wagering has been completed. Where promotions do allow withdrawals with an active bonus balance, at this stage, any remaining bonuses will be revoked.

It is very very important to note that this says "deposit and possible winnings CONNECTED TO THE BONUS", therefore implying BONUS balance is locked into wagering, not CASH balance. It also says that promotions do allow withdrawals with an active bonus balance, at this stage, any remaining bonuses will be revoked.

This means I should be allowed to withdraw CASH balance (and revoke the BONUS balance) at any time.

I have checked back the chat logs, and I attempted to do this very thing, which the casino denied to do! Here is the chat log in question:


Chat started on 29 Dec 2019, 04:00 PM (GMT+0)
(04:00:03)	[EDIT] joined the chat ***
(04:00:03)	[EDIT]: Hello
(04:00:11)	[EDIT]: I would like to forfeit my bonus and withdraw my funds
(04:00:19)	*** [EDIT] joined the chat ***
(04:00:55)	[EDIT] : Hi there
(04:00:56)	[EDIT] : I can certainly look into this query for you. For me to assist you in the best way possible, could you please confirm your full name, date of birth and home address for me?
(04:00:59)	[EDIT]: Of course
*** Personal info verification ***
(04:01:43)	[EDIT] : Thank you for your details.
(04:02:08)	[EDIT] : Please note, you will need to complete wagering.
(04:02:09)	[EDIT] : Once all wagering has been completed, the remaining bonus funds will convert to cash making it possible for you to withdraw.

Isn't the casino breaking their own term (5.3) here? It clearly says CASH balance can be withdrawn, upon which BONUS balance will be revoked, however the casino denied to do this.

Also, NOWHERE in the terms &amp; conditions is it stated that CASH balance needs to be wagered, it is implied that CASH balance is wager-free, and only BONUS balance is locked into wagering.

I firmly believe that the casino is twisting the rules, breaking their own T&amp;C and therefore Maltese National Criminal Code.

Thank you again for taking the time to listen to me and I hope you have a good day.

Hi Spinnertje,

I'm sorry but your interpretation of term 5.3 is entirely inconsistent with what is written in the term. As you point out it states:

"5.3 The deposit and possible winnings connected to the bonus will be locked to the casino account until the wagering has been completed."

This makes clear that your deposit funds are non-withdrawable while you have a bonus in your account, i.e. subject to bonus terms.

And it does NOT state that "promotions do allow withdrawals with an active bonus balance". It states "Where promotions do allow withdrawals with an active bonus balance,...". The inclusion of "Where" in this sentence makes this an exception to a general rule - i.e. the promotion you were playing would have had to explicitly state that this was allowed.

Sadly, if you have made these wagers before receiving the incorrect advice from Live Chat there is nothing we can do to help you. The terms are clear and if you have breached them the operator are within their rights to consider the bonus contract void and reset both parties to pre-contract conditions.

ThePOGG

Thanks for explaining it.

Does that mean they have to reduce the withdrawal by €297 (the bonus money)? As bonus funds were never in play, the final balance would have never reached zero (€0) if the bonus wasn't granted, this means they should pay €1695 instead of €1998?

Thanks.

Hi Spinnertje,

You have violated the bonus contract. This means that the contract is void and all transactions that occurred during the bonus contract are likewise void. Your deposit is all you would be due to have returned.

Thanks,

ThePOGG

How is this fair? They are blatantly deceiving players, lying in support chat and use misleading terms &amp; conditions. How can I fight against this? Mafia business.

I have decided to play the returned balance of €150 and cashed out €1750, I suppose that is another way to retrieve my winnings, I definitely recommend you to look into the business practices of White Hat Gaming and decide if you want to promote them, a sketchy casino with shady practices. At least Karma has restored balance.

Hi Spinnertje,

There is nothing unfair about this practice. You accepted a bonus. You agreed to the terms that were associated with that bonus. You then violated those terms. Your breach voids the contract and as such any actions taken are considered non-valid.

All we can suggest is that in future you ensure that you read and abide by the terms of any bonus you accept.

ThePOGG

This player has exceeded the maximum allowed bet term while playing with a bonus. As such there is nothing we can do to help them.

After depositing 150 EUR and getting a 200% deposit bonus through a Skrill deposit ( I was never supposed to even get this bonus, Skrill is excluded in the T

Dream Vegas - Winnings unfairly confiscated

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