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Hi easysaver - apologies in the delay in response.

I actually actioned this complaint earlier in the week, but have been slow to comment as it's very similar to another complaint that came in a few weeks ago and wanted to speak to the casino first.

All the casino have told me so far is that they are looking into this. 

Bear with me.

ThePOGG

Hi ThePOGG, have you heard back from the casino yet? Thanks, [EDIT]

Hi easysaver,

Yes there is an extended discussion that's ongoing about this complaint. I'm hoping to hear back later today/tomorrow regarding what's the outcome is going to be.

Thanks

ThePOGG

Hi easysaver,

I expect to have a final decision on this issue for you sometime next week at which point I'll give a more detailed explanation of what's been going on.

Thanks

ThePOGG

Hi easysaver,

I've been informed by Lucky247 that they are still waiting on some verification documentation from you. Once you've provided that we should be able to resolve this issue.

Thanks

ThePOGG

I have not received any communication from Lucky247 since I contacted you. What do I need to send them?

Hi easysaver,

Could I ask you to contact Lucky247 support to find out what they require? They've not provided me with that information.

Thanks

ThePOGG

Hi easysaver,

Have you had any success verifying your account at Lucky247?

Thanks

ThePOGG

I emailed Lucky247 on May 7th to ask what documents they required from me. I received a reply same day which said "Your email has been forwarded to the relevant department for review" but I have not received any communication since.

Do you want me to chase them or can you chase your contact at the casino? I think they have forgotten about me (or ignoring me).

Hi easysaver,

If you could chase them today, if you don't have a response by the end of this week I'll contact them on Monday the 19th.

Thanks

ThePOGG

Hi easysaver,

Have you received a response from Lucky 247?

Thanks

ThePOGG

Yes, I sent them the documents they requested yesterday, and they have acknowledged that they have received them and that they have forwarded the documents to their verifications team.

Hi easysaver,

Have your documents been verified?

Thanks

ThePOGG

I have received the following response from the casino:
"I can confirm that your documents have been verified successfully. 

Regarding the withdrawal, the request is still with our management team. As soon as you have feedback, we will contact you accordingly."

Hi easysaver,

I'll give it until next Monday and if you haven't heard anything further I'll follow up with Lucky 247 management.

Thanks

ThePOGG

Apologies easysaver - I meant to respond to you a couple of days ago.

Your payment should arrive any day now (either today or Monday).

Please let me know when you've received it.

Thanks

ThePOGG

Hi easysaver,

Have you received your funds?

Thanks

ThePOGG

I can confirm I have received the full amount of my withdrawal on 9th June to my bank account. I received no communication from the casino and I don't think I would have received my money without you.

I will be sure to stay away from this casino in future!

Hi easysaver,

I'm glad that you've received your funds, but I'll be frank and state that I'm not nearly as comfortable with the outcome of this case as I'd like to be. 

I've specifically been holding off on the publication of 3 complaints about Lucky247 until the last of them was resolved and I have to admit I'm very concerned that these cases were not the honest players that the individuals submitting them would represent.

All 3 complaints revolved around confiscation of funds due to vague justifications of "bonus abuse". That's not a problem, after extended discussion with Lucky247, they agreed that their terms were not clear enough and relevant adjustments have been made.

What does concern me is that 3 complaints of the same nature where submitted to ThePOGG.com in a relatively short space of time. Given that ThePOGG.com is the smallest of several choices players have for dispute mediation against casinos this leaves 4 possibilities;

1) Lucky247 had been widely enforcing vague terms very recently on a large number of players (a large sample would obviously make it more likely that several players may end up here).

2) Players experiencing similar issues submitted complaints after seeing the resolution of the first complaint.

3) After the first complaint was submitted and appeared to be moving to a positive conclusion, further players directly associated with the original complaint submitted complaints. 

4) Coincidence.

I can rule out options 1 and 2. I know exactly how many confiscations were made with these vague rules and these 3 complaints represented the majority of them (i.e. the sample size simply isn't large enough for it to be likely that 3 separate player selected ThePOGG by chance). 

Alongside this I've looked at my competitor sites and no other similar complaints turned up anywhere else, providing further evidence that this was not a widespread practice at this casino.

I also refrained from publishing any of the three complaints until now, so no-one other than the first complaint submitter would know that the first complaint was resolved.

This only leaves options 3 and 4. 

Coincidence seems very unlikely which that leaves an undefined association between the accounts in these three cases the likely connecting factor. Add to this that the player in the original complainant was informed on the 1st of April that they would be paid and complaints 2 and 3 came in hot on the heels of this decision on the 8th and 16th of April and I feel that the likelihood of these players not being associated becomes very slim. 

If these accounts are not being run by the same individual under different names, I feel it's highly likely that the players operating the accounts have a personal relationship with each other that has specifically not been disclosed to this site at the time they submitted their complaint.

While the original justification for the seizures of funds were obviously not valid, collusion or multi-accounting is an absolutely valid justification for non-payment of winnings and in these cases there is - to my mind - a fairly strong indication that this has been taking place. If you choose to engage in this type of practice that's your choice, but my service is not here to assist you. 

From this point on situations where I find suspicious associations between complaints are likely to be held against the submitting players. I will do my best to ensure that coincidental factors are ruled out but had I been aware of all of the facts prior to dealing with these complaints my recommendations to the casino would likely have been different.

I will say that this is the first instance where I've felt the need to question the relationship between different complaints, so this is not a common issue to have arisen.

You can view the other two complaints here ;

http://thepogg.com/complaint/lucky-247-casino-not-want-pay-my-win/

http://thepogg.com/complaint/lucky-247-confiscated-my-winnings/

ThePOGG

I'm sorry ThePOGG but I don't have a clue what you are on about. Are you suggesting that I know the two players you have linked to above? Even if I did know them, what difference does that make?

I will state for the record that to my knowledge, I do not know the two players mentioned above (well, I don't know anyone who would use that username on the internet). I found your website through a Google search for "lucky247 complaint" (2nd result) and I found out that you had helped a player get paid by this casino last year. http://thepogg.com/complaint/lucky-247-confiscated-winnings. As I was was getting nowhere myself I thought it would be a good idea to contact you.

[EDIT - REMOVED NON-VALIDATED ACCUSATION]

I'm grateful for your help in getting me paid by this casino but I am a bit put off by your accusations after the fact. If you wanted to know whether I knew another player you could have just asked.

Hi easysaver,

Firstly - apologies, for some reason your comment got caught in the spam filter (likely due to the inclusion of a link).

What I'm directly saying - and I think this was abundantly clear in my previous post - is that I feel it's highly likely that you not only know the owners of the other accounts but that there is a substantial likelihood your account is operated by the same individual as the other accounts. Asking a person who you suspect is purposefully obscuring their identity if they're obscuring their identity would serve no purpose.

The low volume of confiscations made on the bases of these vague terms by Lucky 247 (the 3 complaints submitted to this site made up over half of all these confiscation), the timing of the submission of your complaints and the lack of any similar complaints turning up at larger mediation sites all point to it being no coincidence that your complaint turned up at this site following hot on the heels of the initial complaint reaching a resolution (yet not having been published). 

All of the above points were addressed in my previous comment and combined puts a substantial '?' over your claim that you do not know the other players. 

I do not in any way support casinos that confiscate funds based on vague "bonus abuse" terms - this is something that I've address with Lucky247 - but neither will I support players that choose to operate multiple identities to claim bonuses that they are not entitled to. 

I realise that you're not going to like my opinion, but your claims of ignorance of the other complaints ring hollow in the face of the evidence and I make a point of acknowledging when I feel I've made a mistake and these complaints were an example of that.

Further comments on this issue will not receive publication.

ThePOGG

__ Quick summary ______
 
 Lucky247 confiscated funds I won playing with a bonus because I changed the slot game I was playing and lowered my bet size while completing the wagering requirement – however, this behaviour is not prohibited in the terms. I am looking to recover a balance of £2,075.70.
 
 __ Account details ______
 
 Username: [EDIT]
 Email: [EDIT]
 
 __ Complaint details ______
 
 I created an account at Lucky247 on April 25th 2014. I claimed a sign up bonus, and lost my deposit and bonus playing slots. I claimed a second sign up bonus, and again lost my deposit and bonus on the same slot machine. I claimed a third sign up bonus, and this time won some money on the same slot machine. I then decided to try my luck on a different machine with a lower bet size, and completed the wagering requirement. I requested a withdrawal of my winnings. The deposit was £200, the bonus was £200, and I ended up with a balance of £2,075.70. My initial bet size was £39, and I then changed to a bet size of £7. 
 
 ______________
 
 Lucky247 asked me to explain my gameplay:
 Whilst checking the gameplay on your account, we noticed you moved from a high wager and changed the bet size to meet play through.
 
 As advised in our previous email, our promotional terms and conditions state; 
 
 Condition 14
 
 All Players’ wagers will be reviewed for irregular game play patterns prior to any withdrawal being processed. Equal, zero, low margin or hedge betting will be construed as irregular game play for bonus wagering requirements. This also includes and is not limited to the placing of bets equal to or greater than 20% of the bonus credited to the players gaming account. Should the Casino deem that any irregular game play has taken place on the gaming account, the Casino reserves the right to withhold any cashin as well as the right to confiscate all winnings.
 
 Please advise why you changed your gameplay.
 
 ______________
 
 I explained to Lucky247 that "I managed to get lucky on one slot machine so I decided that I didn't want to push my luck so I switched to another game." 
 
 ______________
 
 Lucky247 replied, citing the same Condition 14 as above and stating:
 
 In your case, you made constant wagers up until the time you won after which you moved to lower wagers, please be advised that this would be deemed as irregular gameplay as it is opposed to what you were wagering prior to winning. 
 
 The matter was referred to management and the outcome as explained above was that the cashin was confiscated due to this.
 
 ______________
 
 My position is that Lucky247 is relying on the vague phrase [irregular game play] to confiscate my winnings, which is not fair or legally enforceable. There is nothing in the terms about changing bet size whatsoever. I am looking for my balance of £2,075.70 to be restored and paid to my bank account.
 
 ______________
 
 Regards,
 
 [EDIT]

Lucky 247 - Funds confiscated for lowering bet size despite no prohibitive terms

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